"cindys" <***@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message news:<r%Vnc.235401$***@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
[snip]
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With regard to Gittin 57a, the followers of Judaism here have been
busy refuting a claim that I specifically pointed out that I was *not*
claiming in the first place.
The followers of Judaism here have been busy posting evidence to prove
that the original writers of Talmud could not have been referring to
Jesus in Gittin 57a, that the original writers of Talmud could not
have intended "Yeshu HaNotzi" elsewhere in Talmud to refer to Jesus.
I never claimed that the original writers of the Talmud intended
Gittin 57a to refer to Jesus, that the original writers elsewhere in
Talmud intended "Yeshu HaNotzi" to refer to Jesus.
That does *not* mean that was the meaning intended by the original
writers of Talmud.
But it does show what is being taught by followers of Judaism
*today*.
So I did *not* claim that it was the original writers of Talmud that
intended that interpretation.
I said that it was *modern* rabbis, *modern* followers of Judaism
which claim that interpretation.
And I proved that with abundant quotes from 7 *Jewish* Web sites:
----------------begin quote #1----------
"The latter is known in Jewish tradition as "Yeshu HaNotzri," Jesus of
Nazareth, the founder of Christianity."
- quoted from
http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/bc.htm
---------------begin quote #2----------------------
"Yeshu hanotzri who became founder of Christianity. He tried to
impress upon the world that he was a prophet sent by G-d as Mashiach.
Ultimately, he was put to death."
- quoted from
http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/vedibarta-bam/47.htm
-----------------begin quote #3---------------------
"Yeshu HaNotzri - The man in his own words - A Torah view of the
founder of Christianity"
- quoted from
http://www.koshertorah.com/Yeshu%20HaNotzri.pdf
------------------begin quote #4--------------------
"Yeshu HaNotzri boils in 'Tzo'ah Rosachas'.
Let us understand why.
Chazal compare the birth of Christianity with the day the Egel HaZahav
was first brought to life, a sin for which Israel suffers till this
day. "
- quoted from
http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/parsha/dimension/archives/vayechi60.htm
-------------------begin quote #5---------------------
Onkelos then communicated with the founder of Christianity.
"Who is most important in the next world?
"Israel."
"Give me advice: I wish to join them as a proselyte."
"Seek their good but do not seek their bad points. Whoever touches
them is like one who touches the 'pupil' of God's eye."
"And what is your destiny in the next world?"
"I am immersed in boiling excrement."
- quoted from
http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=1245
--------------------begin quote #6----------------------
... hence also the pseudonym "Balaam," given to Jesus in Sanh. 106b
and Gittin 57a. See Geiger, "Bileam and Jesus," in "Wissenschaftliche
Zeitschrift für Jüdische Theologie," vi. 31-37).
- quoted from
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=161&letter=B&search=Balaam
--------------------begin quote #7----------------------
Rabbi Pape: Rabbi Kalmanson, I want to bring up a very touchy subject.
It was claimed on this program a few weeks ago that for thousands of
years Jews have had self-sacrifice to reject Christianity because the
leader of that religion died. Could you please explain how this fits
into our discussion tonight?
Rabbi Kalmanson: First of all, the rejection of Yeshu HaNotzri, as the
Rambam calls him, had nothing to do with his death, or his being
killed, or the likes thereof. Everyone in those times, including the
non-Jews of the time, knew that Jewish rejection of him was precisely
because he went against Torah and mitzvos, because he abolished Torah
and mitzvos. There was nothing about him to indicate that he was a
representative of the concept of a Moshiach. This has nothing to do
with the fact that he died.
- quoted from
http://www.beismoshiach.org/Moshiach/moshiach354.htm
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It is always a *possibility* that the original writers of Talmud *did*
intended Gittin 57a to refer to Jesus, *did* intend for "Yeshu
HaNotzri" elsewhere in Talmud to refer to Jesus.
They knew that they could not put an explicit denunciation of Jesus in
the Talmud, so they might have tried to slip in a sly reference that
could get by Christian censors.
"Why, our denunciation of that sinner Yeshu HaNotzri could not have
referred to Jesus, because this Yeshu HaNotzri obviously lived 100
years before Jesus <snicker, snicker>".
Although that is a possibilty, I know of no evidence that was the
case, so I have no opinion on the matter one way or the other.
Instead, my accusation has always been that it is the *modern* rabbis
who go around making that association.
And I have provided a multitude of quotes to *prove* it.
- moshe